The Balkans War of 1912 was for the region a time of rising nationalistic tension and power as the land once ruled by the Ottoman Empire for hundreds of years went to war. In this time the dreams of a new golden age for the Turks, the Greeks, the Bulgars, Serbs, and other peoples were fought to be made manifest.
In November of 1912 Bulgarian forces under Radko Dimitriev sought to complete a series of glorious victories against the Ottomans. The Ottoman armies of the Balkans defeated they sought after their great prize: The City of Istanbul. The only thing standing in their way was the fortress at Catalca just 35 km away from the city of Istanbul and Bulgarian dreams. The place was the last chance for the Ottomans to turn back the Ottomans and force the chance of a armistice on the Bulgarians to give space for a Ottoman counter attack.
At first it seemed that a fog over the area would provide ‘cover’ for the Bulgarians to take the high ridges of Catalca from the Ottomans, but the fog was short lived and General Dimitriev called off a daylight attack for duelling artillery with the Ottoman’s. If the Bulgarians had attacked they would have been slaughtered by the Ottoman guns, their commander Mahmut Muhtar Pasa had learned well from Ottoman defeats and improved Ottoman defensive tactics. Alas the Bulgarians dug in for a siege and instead opted for a night attack and with their superior numbers broke through Ottoman lines at Illeri and swept into their defensive positions. Mahmut Pasa killed in the attack crushes the Ottoman’s already low spirits. Taking Catalca from the Ottomans, Dimitriev and the 2nd and 2rd Bulgarian armies secure the local railroad lines and head on Istanbul.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbomally 
„A one-party state? Are you loco in the coco? Why would anypony just want one party?“-Pinkie Pie
#2
July 8th, 2012, 05:06 AM
The Enemy at the Gate
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: an my way from Callisto to Io
Posts: 1000 or more
Bulgarian Constantinople… I want so badly!
__________________
A North American Potato, a Bronze Age North America, all of this an more can be found in From Blight We Rise
#3
Emperor of the Bronies
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Baltimare, Equestria
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by General_Finley
Bulgarian Constantinople… I want so badly!
The Russians…so very much do not want.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbomally
„A one-party state? Are you loco in the coco? Why would anypony just want one party?“-Pinkie Pie
#4
The Enemy at the Gate
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: an my way from Callisto to Io
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Malta
The Russians…so very much do not want.
Damn the Russians! Tsargrad belongs to the Third Bulgarian Empire. It has been Bulgaria’s right since Symeon the great claimed it.
__________________
A North American Potato, a Bronze Age North America, all of this an more can be found in From Blight We Rise
#5
Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1000 or more
Welp, certainly a lot of dying is going to come of that.
#6
Emperor of the Bronies
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Baltimare, Equestria
Posts: 1000 or more
Anyone want to guess the arrangement of Great Powers on whose side they will be on following this?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbomally
„A one-party state? Are you loco in the coco? Why would anypony just want one party?“-Pinkie Pie
#7
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bristol, Great Britain
Posts: 1000 or more
A new timeline set during the Balkans Wars? I am definitely going to subscribe to this.
__________________
The 1000 Years Of The Komnenos
#8
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bristol, Great Britain
Posts: 1000 or more
Wouldn’t Russia attack Bulgaria if it tries to take Constantinople? Also, is there a pod in any other part of the war, like Serbia, Montenegro and Greece succeeding more?
__________________
The 1000 Years Of The Komnenos
#9
Emperor of the Bronies
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Baltimare, Equestria
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tongera
Wouldn’t Russia attack Bulgaria if it tries to take Constantinople? Also, is there a pod in any other part of the war, like Serbia, Montenegro and Greece succeeding more?
Thats true. Unless the British and Germans get them to back down…or if they don’t…well. You can guess what happens
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbomally
„A one-party state? Are you loco in the coco? Why would anypony just want one party?“-Pinkie Pie
#10
The Enemy at the Gate
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: an my way from Callisto to Io
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Malta
Thats true. Unless the British and Germans get them to back down…or if they don’t…well. You can guess what happens
A German, British, Austro-Hungarian, Bulgarian alliance against a Russo, Franco, Italian alliance while Turkey cries in the corner as Bulgaria and Russia do battle for Constantinople.
__________________
A North American Potato, a Bronze Age North America, all of this an more can be found in From Blight We Rise
#11
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bristol, Great Britain
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by General_Finley
A German, British, Austro-Hungarian, Bulgarian alliance against a Russo, Franco, Italian alliance while Turkey cries in the corner as Bulgaria and Russia do battle for Constantinople.
Why do i think Turkey will get steamrolled in this scenario?
__________________
The 1000 Years Of The Komnenos
#12
The Enemy at the Gate
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: an my way from Callisto to Io
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tongera
Why do i think Turkey will get steamrolled in this scenario?
because it will have no allies with both factions wanting to take the prize of Constantinople for themselves. Even if Russia is forced to back down and Bulgaria takes Constantinople the Ottomans are screwed. Turkey might be better off with a war for Constantinople because if their is an agreement for giving Bulgaria Constantinople then the Russians will want compensation, likely in the form of Armenia and this could lead to the partitioning of Turkey.
__________________
A North American Potato, a Bronze Age North America, all of this an more can be found in From Blight We Rise
#13
Emperor of the Bronies
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Baltimare, Equestria
Posts: 1000 or more
The Young Turks of course would never allow that to happen…
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbomally
„A one-party state? Are you loco in the coco? Why would anypony just want one party?“-Pinkie Pie
#14
The Enemy at the Gate
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: an my way from Callisto to Io
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Malta
The Young Turks of course would never allow that to happen…
They can try, but the Balkans War vastly depleted the number of school-trained officers in the Turkish army and broke the Turkish reserve system. If the great powers decide to partition Turkey the Turks can fight on, but they will lose this fight. This isn’t like OTL where the great powers are exhausted from the Great War and unable to enforce the terms. If the great powers settle the matter peacefully and decide to partition the Turkish Empire, the Turks with lose.
__________________
A North American Potato, a Bronze Age North America, all of this an more can be found in From Blight We Rise
#15
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bristol, Great Britain
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by General_Finley
They can try, but the Balkans War vastly depleted the number of school-trained officers in the Turkish army and broke the Turkish reserve system. If the great powers decide to partition Turkey the Turks can fight on, but they will lose this fight. This isn’t like OTL where the great powers are exhausted from the Great War and unable to enforce the terms. If the great powers settle the matter peacefully and decide to partition the Turkish Empire, the Turks with lose.
Particularly with the Russians, English and French. And whoever else decides to join the winning powers. Didn’t Russia want to colonize the Northern part of Anatolia with Cossacks?
__________________
The 1000 Years Of The Komnenos
#16
The Enemy at the Gate
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: an my way from Callisto to Io
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tongera
Particularly with the Russians, English and French. And whoever else decides to join the winning powers. Didn’t Russia want to colonize the Northern part of Anatolia with Cossacks?
If the matter is settled without a war, I do wonder what the Germans will ask for/demand?
__________________
A North American Potato, a Bronze Age North America, all of this an more can be found in From Blight We Rise
#17
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bristol, Great Britain
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by General_Finley
If the matter is settled without a war, I do wonder what the Germans will ask for/demand?
What could they possibly want/need?
__________________
The 1000 Years Of The Komnenos
#18
The Enemy at the Gate
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: an my way from Callisto to Io
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tongera
What could they possibly want/need?
I’m not sure, but they have been funding the Berlin to Baghdad railway and they won’t be entirely happy to see Britain gain Iraq because Germany already has access and ownership of oil fields in Iraq.
__________________
A North American Potato, a Bronze Age North America, all of this an more can be found in From Blight We Rise
#19
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1000 or more
Guys
I see a number of problems. If the Bulgarians do get to Constantinople they still have to take it. While not the size of today’s city its a big one and neither the Turks nor the large Greek minority at the time will be welcoming of the Bulgarians. It could easily see the Bulgarian army destroyed in bitter urban conflict. Not to mention the probable international outrage over such a battle.
At the time Bulgaria was Russia’s main ally in the Balkans. It was after they did most of the fighting but Serbia and Greece got the bulk of the gains and then Russia didn’t support them in gaining more lands from their allies that led to the disastrous [for Bulgaria] 2nd Balkan war. As such would Russia have been that hostile if an ally/protectorate had successfully seized the city from the Turks?
Assorted powers would have been opposed to Bulgaria seizing the straits but Greece, probably backed by Serbia, would also be more than a little vocal about it. Expect them to have say in the exchange.
This would also be the case if a more widespread war didn’t occur. Hence, if Bulgaria somehow took target of the city then, unless they got a lot of Russian support, don’t expect them to hold it for long.
Steve
#20
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bristol, Great Britain
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevep
Guys
I see a number of problems. If the Bulgarians do get to Constantinople they still have to take it. While not the size of today’s city its a big one and neither the Turks nor the large Greek minority at the time will be welcoming of the Bulgarians. It could easily see the Bulgarian army destroyed in bitter urban conflict. Not to mention the probable international outrage over such a battle.
At the time Bulgaria was Russia’s main ally in the Balkans. It was after they did most of the fighting but Serbia and Greece got the bulk of the gains and then Russia didn’t support them in gaining more lands from their allies that led to the disastrous [for Bulgaria] 2nd Balkan war. As such would Russia have been that hostile if an ally/protectorate had successfully seized the city from the Turks?
Assorted powers would have been opposed to Bulgaria seizing the straits but Greece, probably backed by Serbia, would also be more than a little vocal about it. Expect them to have say in the exchange. This would also be the case if a more widespread war didn’t occur. Hence, if Bulgaria somehow took target of the city then, unless they got a lot of Russian support, don’t expect them to hold it for long.
Steve
I have the feeling the Bulgarians will take it, but won’t hold onto it for long. Probably thrown out by the Russians and English, or has to abandon it because of a potential war.
__________________
The 1000 Years Of The Komnenos
« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump
User Control Panel Personal Messages Subscriptions Who’s Online Search Forums Forums Home Administration Announcements Help and Feedback Post Test Messages Here Wiki Alternate History Wiki Wiki Discussion Discussion Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900 Alternate History Discussion: After 1900 Finished Timelines and Scenarios Alternate History Books and Media
All times are GMT. The time now is 11:47 PM.
– Default Style – Cool White –- Black and Green – New Blue –- White – Clean Grey
Contact Us – AlternateHistory.com – Archive – Top
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 – 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Hide
Option
Dismiss
– 
Page 2 –
Alternate History Discussion Board > Discussion > Alternate History Discussion: After 1900
The Fog of War Lifts: 1912 Balkans War
User Name
Remember Me?
Password
Register
FAQ
Community
Calendar
Today’s Posts
Search
#21
Emperor of the Bronies
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Baltimare, Equestria
Posts: 1000 or more
What Comes Next
With the Ottoman defenses broken at Catalca the events of the next few weeks would have one common factor shared by not only those involved in the current conflict, but by those who would soon be dragged into it as well. This common factor was a feeling of panic.
The defeat at Catalca ensured the loss of close to twenty thousand soldiers on part of the Ottoman Army as portions of the defending forces guarding way to Constantinople were surrounded and killed or captured by the bulk of Bulgarian forces lead by the Third Army. The most crippling blow of their loses was the capture or destruction of a large portion of their artillery cannons which had been neutralized by the Bulgarian night attack or destroyed in succeeding artillery bombardment. The cannons themselves represented a large portion of not only the Ottoman army’s modernization, but their defenses for Istanbul. The only guns not disrupted by the Bulgarian victory was those on the Ottoman naval ships, but throughout the conflict their prescence had hardly contributed to any military edge due to the Ottoman’s rusty navy. The battle was also unfortunate for the Ottomans because a great deal of their military staff had flocked to the battle sight to overlook the Bulgarians. Besides Mahmut Pasa casulties included many high and low ranking officers (which contributed to the sorry affair that was the Ottoman retreat) which included such notables as Mustafa Ismet.
Following the breakthrough Nazim Pasa the leader of Ottoman forces threw in support reserve corps at the Bulgarians while carefully reorganizing forces left over from the battle for a new defense. Repositioning guns still operational from the battle and even from Istanbul itself to stop the Bulgarians. In part this strategy worked as the resulting reorganized defenses halted the Bulgarians after three days of fighting, but at the same time it dashed any hope of armistance. With victory at Catalca the Bulgarians had advanced through the stoney, pastures of Gaziosmanpasa. To the world it seemed that Bulgaria was on the cusp of taking Istanbul. Especially to Serbian and Greek commanders who began to draw back from the Bulgarians slowly. Especially to several Ottoman military officers who stormed the Sultan’s palace on the day the Bulgarian advance was finally halted. Especially so to Russia as military forces that crossed into Bulgaria. Especially so to Great Britain and Germany as they decried Russia’s actions. Especially to Tsar Ferdinand who already was planning his triumphant walk into Constantinople.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbomally
„A one-party state? Are you loco in the coco? Why would anypony just want one party?“-Pinkie Pie
#22
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bristol, Great Britain
Posts: 1000 or more
Why do you taunt us by withholding the exciting part?
__________________
The 1000 Years Of The Komnenos
#23
Emperor of the Bronies
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Baltimare, Equestria
Posts: 1000 or more
So you can comment what comes next.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbomally
„A one-party state? Are you loco in the coco? Why would anypony just want one party?“-Pinkie Pie
#24
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bristol, Great Britain
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Malta
So you can comment what comes next.
Well i can’t wait. Still evil for taunting us though. Although i do have doubts about Bulgarians actually taking Istanbul.
__________________
The 1000 Years Of The Komnenos
#25
Emperor of the Bronies
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Baltimare, Equestria
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tongera
Well i can’t wait. Still evil for taunting us though. Although i do have doubts about Bulgarians actually taking Istanbul.
Well how about helping me with names for the allied coaltions about to form?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbomally
„A one-party state? Are you loco in the coco? Why would anypony just want one party?“-Pinkie Pie
#26
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Malta
Well how about helping me with names for the allied coaltions about to form?
That would depend on the alliances. It sounds like Bulgaria, Russia and [possibly France?] against just about everybody else. Britain might limit its involvement if it thought the continental powers will cancel each other out and Constantinople stays out of Russian hands. This presumes that the Russians are marching in support of Bulgaria, which is sounds like is the case. If so have they pressurised Romania into giving then access or being moved to Bulgaria by sea. Serbia and Greece are likely to stay neutral if they can stay out of the conflict and keep the gains they have made from the Ottomans. Austria will follow Germany’s lead, especially since they won’t want Russia getting too powerful. Italy could go either way or stay neutral. A lot for them might depend on which way Britain goes as sea power is important for Italy.
Steve
#27
Emperor of the Bronies
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Baltimare, Equestria
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevep
That would depend on the alliances. It sounds like Bulgaria, Russia and [possibly France?] against just about everybody else. Britain might limit its involvement if it thought the continental powers will cancel each other out and Constantinople stays out of Russian hands. This presumes that the Russians are marching in support of Bulgaria, which is sounds like is the case. If so have they pressurised Romania into giving then access or being moved to Bulgaria by sea. Serbia and Greece are likely to stay neutral if they can stay out of the conflict and keep the gains they have made from the Ottomans. Austria will follow Germany’s lead, especially since they won’t want Russia getting too powerful. Italy could go either way or stay neutral. A lot for them might depend on which way Britain goes as sea power is important for Italy.
Steve
Oh no its quite the opposite for Russia.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbomally
„A one-party state? Are you loco in the coco? Why would anypony just want one party?“-Pinkie Pie
#28
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bristol, Great Britain
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevep
That would depend on the alliances. It sounds like Bulgaria, Russia and [possibly France?] against just about everybody else. Britain might limit its involvement if it thought the continental powers will cancel each other out and Constantinople stays out of Russian hands. This presumes that the Russians are marching in support of Bulgaria, which is sounds like is the case. If so have they pressurised Romania into giving then access or being moved to Bulgaria by sea. Serbia and Greece are likely to stay neutral if they can stay out of the conflict and keep the gains they have made from the Ottomans. Austria will follow Germany’s lead, especially since they won’t want Russia getting too powerful. Italy could go either way or stay neutral. A lot for them might depend on which way Britain goes as sea power is important for Italy.
Steve
It seems more like Russia attacking Bulgaria, because only Russia alone will have Constantinople, especiall if they can help it.
__________________